syslog-ng Open Source Edition 3.26 - Release Notes

[Table] IAmA: We are the Operations team at Etsy. Ask us anything!

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Date: 2013-08-12
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What do you use for monitoring? Do you scale by hand, automatically, etc? And most importantly, have you ever established a correlation between alcohol intake and on-call rotations? We're sticking with the classic, good old Nagios. It's semi-automated right now with host configurations, contacts and contactgroups populated from Chef, but manual configuration otherwise (version controlled in git)
On call is an interesting thing.
We have about 7 people in the rotation right now and we spend a lot of time and effort trying to reduce alert fatigue and numbness to pages. We haven't looked at that particular correlation between those two things, but I'm curious now! I'll start tracking it next week ;-)
We do a lot of other things, such as monitoring sleep patterns. Several people on the team wear motion trackers or use sleep tracking apps on their phones. I'll be talking about this more at Velocity NY, but there's something there for sure.
I personally try to avoid drinking while on call ;-)
In answer to your part about scaling, it's manual (no cloud here) but given spare hardware we can spin up a machine using a command line tool (we hope to open source) using a Chef role in about 5-10 minutes, so it's not a huge pain.
Active or passive checks? At your scale, you'll either have lots of workers (gearman?), or do something nifty like mnrpes (passive checks over mcollective). 99% active. We do have multiple Nagios servers, to scale things across datacenters, but our main Nagios instance is happily doing 8745 active checks, 81.6% of those are checked less than every 5 minutes. Current check latency is 0.871 seconds.
Which single malts scale well? I'm looking for something that will hold up to daily drinking. A nice 18 year old Glenfiddich scales extremely well, especially if used in an active active configuration with a glass in each hand. The part of Scotland where Glenfiddich is located also benefits from near-permanent exposure to the Cloud (several clouds in fact).
Is it worth the cost? I know I can keep throwing hardware money at it, but I could have a lot more if I switched to java the 12 year. Is it worth the hit to developer happiness? Quality over quantity - you could also have a lot more if you bought a bottle with a plain white label that just says Whisky, but I wouldn't recommend it ;)
The web stack is a monolithic PHP application and the configuration is part of the code. In the past, yes, it did mean a full code redeploy. (Note that Deployinator uses rsync, so if only a single file is changed, the network traffic is pretty minimal.) We recently split it out and now have 2 separate deployment queues: one for configuration, and one for code. Edit: oops, just noticed that Kellan already answered this :)
Does this approach mean that any config changes mean a code re-deploy?
What is your favorite config management tool and why? We use Chef here at Etsy and it's worked extremely well for us. We've got a lot of internal expertise with it and written a lot of tooling and workflow tweaks to make it work better for us.
I'd hesitate to say that Chef is our favourite config management tool, primarily because we haven't deployed any of the others here (although many of us have used them in past jobs). With that said, it works extremely well for us and we're not looking to migrate to anything else at the moment.
Speaking personally, I really like that Chef's DSL is Ruby based - I'm a Ruby guy so I find this really great to work with. I also think Opscode have done an excellent job of making Chef workflow-agnostic and flexible - it's allowed an extremely rich ecosystem of tooling and workflows to grow around the core product.
If you had to rebuild from scratch, would you choose Chef again? I'd say that the exact config management solution you choose is irrelevant as long as you actually choose one of them. What I can say for certain is that we'd definitely still be using configuration management of some sort.
Bearing in mind the existing bias of the fact that we already use and know Chef, it's hard to say exactly what that solution would look like.
After reading your "Our hardware" blog post, we (my co-worker and I) noticed that you don't virtualize much. Why? Generally, we use most of the power of a given machine, so it doesn't necessarily make sense. We have nothing against virtualisation, given the right workload: For example, we give every engineer a virtual machine (since it's unlikely all of them are using the full power of a machine), and continuous integration test nodes (because it's easier to have separate LXC containers to share resources than try and run multiple MySQL/Apache/etc on one host)
That's a very interesting answer. In addition to utilizing the physical box in its entirety, I'm willing to bet you have enough redundancy in your important physical machines to not need some of the fault tolerance features provided by virtualization across a cloud (think Amazon). Excellent point. I think at this point we're 97.3% of the way there having no single box being the only one doing that thing.
No matter how well you make a piece of hardware, it's always going to fail in some way.
For example, we don't even bother putting multiple disks (SSDs) in our webservers, because if one fails, never mind. The DC guys will swap it out at some point and when it's done, 10 minutes later it's back reinstalled and serving the site again.
The remaining 2.7% isn't responsible for production either.
How do you people monitor the Etsy's website from client's perspective, whether you people use some external monitoring services ? We use a number of tools to do this. We use external services, but we also use Lognormal to collect performance data, much like many other sites do.
What RDBMS you people use and how you scale them, ensure high availablity and prevent SPOFs. Mostly MySQL. Check this out: Link to . We also have a little PostgreSQL, but most of the services that use it have been migrated to MySQL with a master-master setup.
What log and data backup solution you people use ? We log a log of data and centralise it with syslog-ng. From that central point we then do a lot of cool stuff with it, like parsing with Logster, sending to splunk, etc.
What are the desired skills required for getting job as Operations Engg. at Etsy? Strong web operations knowledge (linux, apache, mysql, php), configuration management, and networking are all a good starting point.
Who decides the architecture of the application - Developer or DevOps? If both, how do you reconcile the differences? Both. We get together in a room (or over video conferencing) and talk about what would be best for the product, operations, and long term maintainability.
What software and/or techniques do you use for backing up MySQL databases? We use Percona's Xtrabackup, which creates binary backups very fast. We backup all our databases every night to a local store on each Mysql server and then ship those backups to centralized backup servers and to an offsite location.
waves to all The entire Ops organisation is pretty large, and covers infrastructure, security, corp IT, and others. There are 14 people who deal with the production site and network directly. We have about 15 people in the room right now, from a variety of groups who want to say hello!
How big is your team, who all is here today, and how do you manage all the different personalities you work with? Personalities are always great to work with. We enjoy all the different ways of thinking. Sure, sometimes we run into bumps just like any group does. Over time we've built strong relationships with each other and they really help us get over things quickly.
Also, what's for dinner? :P. Dinner is hand pulled noodles :-)
+1 in the Data Center! Keep the noodles away from the servers, dude! Last time I got too close with noodles, the site was flooded with pictures of ramen!
How do you handle routing around failure? Our load balancers do handle the host checking. We run load balancers in pairs, so a hot standby is always ready to go. We don't use DNS internally for any failoveHA stuff. Part 2 of that blog post has yet to come...
Presumably server failures are handled by a load balancer, but how are load balancer failures handled? Our site is fronted by CDNs (three, specifically), so we closely monitor failures they have reaching us. If any of the 3 have an issue, they can be shut off and the bulk of the traffic is moved within a few minutes, thanks to, as you say, very low TTL DNS records. This has some downsides, because of the caching issues/people disregarding any TTL less than X, but those types of CDN failures are fairly short lived.
Do you remove low-TTL entries from DNS? We monitor failures from the CDNs by having them serve a special "Whoopsie" page when they can't reach us. In this we have a "pixel tracker" 1x1 image, which comes back to origin bypassing the CDN so we can track if it could be our issue, or a particular CDN.
Remove anycast entries from BGP? In terms of load balancer failures themselves, we run active-failover and the failover is extremely efficient there. They very rarely have an issue that means our origin is unavailable due to the load balancers themselves.
More information in our upcoming talk at Velocity EU: Link to
What do you guys use to make your MySQL deployment highly available? (master-slave, master-master? where do you write, how do you flip server, roles, etc) We use Master-Master pairs. You can read more details about it here: Link to and here: Link to
What made you go with a semi-home grown backup server instead of an enterprise class storage/backup solution? I know it's probably a bit cheaper to roll your own but I would really not want to test your backups ever. I hope you offsite your backups, please tell me you offsite them. One of the things we love here, is the ability to keep things as simple as possible. That includes our software, our processes and our changes. We based our solution on that. It started off as a collection of shell scripts, and eventually was rewritten in Ruby. It's still incredibly simple, and easy to debug when things break, and affords us the flexibility we want. As an example, we can add very custom modules to test backups to ensure they're correct.
Do you guys version control your schema changes? It seems to be one of the few areas people often don't version control. We don't VC our schema changes. We do have a lot of tests that run against the production schema when code is about to be deployed.
Do you use Redis in production and, if so, how do you achieve high-availability with it? We do use Redis in production, but currently on a limited basis (we have a number of experiments that are either underway or being planned). We maintain a masteslave pair for availability and will be taking a closer look at Sentinel to determine if it's a fit for us.
What do you run your own servers instead of using cloud IaaS providers? Did you do a cost comparison? Is there a non-cost reason? Back when Etsy first started, the cloud was very much in its infancy. At that time everyone was running things on their own platform.
Since then, we've invested heavily in the skills and infrastructure to keep growing our own platform. Certainly, I don't think there's a strong technical reason we couldn't run on a cloud IaaS platform, it's just that we're not there. The setup we have now runs really well and there isn't a strong technical benefit to moving.
We do have a lot of internal virtual machines which developers use, but most of the rest of our hardware is dedicated to specific functions.
How many "fires" do you go through a week or month? What has been the most interesting/stressful situation your team has been through keeping everything up and running? We average about 70 alerts per week at the moment. Those range in severity, of course, but there is the occasional site outage. We work really hard to generate visibility into how our infrastructure is operating; sometimes, knowing which set of dashboards and/or metrics to review in a given situation makes responding to outages a little stressful, but in the end, that level of visibility helps us to respond very quickly when outages occur.
Along these same lines, how do you make sure you have a high signal-to-noise ratio? In other words, how do you prevent the typical "oh, that's just the load balancer acting up, you can ignore the alert"? This is an excellent question. Alert fatigue can be a big problem. The key, once again, is to constantly review and tune the alerts; perhaps a threshold needs to be adjusted; perhaps the alert doesn't need to page (but an email would still be warranted); perhaps the original assumptions that went into designing the alert no longer hold and the alert can be removed. Remember to discuss your ideas about modifying alerts with your team; they'll provide valuable feedback.
I imagine you don't want to be alerted of everything, but also don't want to reduce the number of alerts to a point where you'll miss something. Continuous care and feeding of your alerts is critical because you definitely don't want engineers to be in the habit of ignoring alerts. Otherwise, why have an alerting system in the first place?
To the DBAs, how do you handle high i/o? Also, how long do you test before pushing to prod? Most of our data is sharded, so we divide the IO load among many servers. When we need to expand our Mysql infrastructure, we add more master-master pairs and have internal tooling to move data between shards. Regarding how long we test before pushing to prod, it varies a lot. We have the ability to "ramp-up" new features to a percentage of users. That way we can see how the new feature is impacting performance.
I didn't know MySQL had a Master-Master config. Thought that was an oracle and sql 2012 thing. Mysql doesn't have any restrictions for doing it. You just setup bidirectional replication among two servers and it works. You do have to be careful with auto-increment fields, which we don't use at all.
Mysql doesn't have any restrictions for doing it. You just setup bidirectional replication among two servers and it works. You do have to be careful with auto-increment fields, which we don't use at all. How do you shard the mysql data ? What tool you use to achieve this ? Whether the sharding is on table level or on row level ? How do you handle in case one of the master goes down from a MM cluster ? We shard based on users and shops. All data for a particular user or shop will be all in one shard. When a server goes down, we remove it from our application configuration file. From that point on, all web servers don't know the downed box exists. After that, we bring up a spare box, restore it from last night's backup, let replication catch-up and put it back into the configuration so it starts taking traffic again. While the box was down, the other side of the MM pair took the load of both sides. You can see some additional information about our sharding architecture here: Link to
Good to know. I'd be interested to see some i/o numbers from the DB farm, but I get why you couldn't post those. Thanks for the reply. We currently have around 100 Mysql servers, all of them are 16 disk 15k RPM setup in RAID 10. Each one is capable of around 2000 iops.
What is your server naming scheme? (if you can disclose that without security implications) We name our servers after their functional purpose. Rather than including the location of the server in the first part of the hostname, we use a fully qualified internal hostname to indicate the location of the server.
So basically,
Is it easy for you to tell what is on the server for alerts? When goes down do you actually know why? I ask because it is a problem I am dealing with currently at work. Also how descriptive are your functions and do you have random app38 servers? We logically group our server functions in Nagios and Chef by functional group, ie all of our webservers will be under a webservers host group in Nagios, and our alerts are configured accordingly. Similarly, all of our webservers use the Chef role "Web". We don't usually have the problem that we have a random app38 server and aren't sure whats on it - if you wanted to establish what was on app38, you could go to Chef and look at the "App" role.
The kind of continuous deployment that companies like yours are doing is, I think, still out of reach for a lot of companies, especially ones that don't have big enough in-house devops teams to produce the systems. What tools or services do you think are still not available that would help companies get there more quickly? I think you're right. I spoke about this at length at LISA '11 and the same question came up there.
A lot of CD is to do with culture, much more than tools. I know people who do it with Deployinator, Jenkins, Dreadnot, and a bunch of other things. But the culture is really what makes it. Once you have the culture moving in the right direction, where developers are happy pushing code and owning software problems, and operations teams are OK letting go of the control and working with developers, the tools become less important.
(I realise this isn't directly answering your question, so I'll summarise with: better CD tools like Deployinator and Dreadnot, and betteeasier unit testing things are always good.)
How do you handle automation and change control on the very uncooperative lower layer stuff like bios and raid card config? BIOS: We've managed to avoid it. Which is irritating because recently we discovered that having Hyperthreading enabled was actually hurting performance and scaling, so we had to manually restart tens of servers to fix them, but that was a one off so it was quicker to do it by hand than automate (I'd love to hear if there was a good way to do this if anyone has any ideas...)
RAID cards: We have a set of tools that allow us to burn-in, configure and then install machines automatically. Part of this includes a tool which PXE boots a CentOS "live CD", so we can have full access to the various RAID configuration tools. You can essentially choose a RAID configuration on the command line, and the server is rebooted and reconfigured by loading a configuration file from the master server. No more touching MegaCLI or hpacucli :) More information about how we do this available here: Link to
With HP servers you can use the SmartStart scripting tool and a web hosted XML file to configure the BIOS. Specifically the HPRCU command (formally CONREP). Link to If you'd like to hire me I'd be glad to set it up for you. :) FYI you can also configure iLO with this tool. Thanks! I was aware of the HP methods, but in this case it was Supermicro.
What do you use for an op's dashboard? We also use Nagdash which was written in house (cough) for a Nagios dashboard both in the office and in browsers
What are key operational metrics? How do you deduce business KPI's from your data and how do you instrument them? As for key metrics, we have specific metrics per service (How many DB queries are happening? How about web requests?), and also business metrics.
What hadoop distribution do you run? We're running Cloudera's CDH open source release (specially CDH4.1 right now) Because we use Chef so heavily we decided to stick with the open source release since it's so easy to build new machines, and just install the RPMs/configs.
Have you ever been in a position where PaaS/ outsourced IT was a realistic position for some products/web services within Etsy? How did you manage supporting those products and services? What points of differentiation did you explore for Etsy operations services vs AWS services like Elastic Beanstalk or Heroku? We've certainly considered it. In some cases it has made sense, and in other cases not. That sounds like a cop-out, but we really do take everything on a case-by-case basis. If we were a lot smaller, I would advocate more for out sourcing to help stretch our resources farther. How does it change our options for the future? These are really just some of the questions. With the understanding that our infrastructure is a known good design pattern for us, we try to stick to it where possible.
How much exposure to ITIL have you had? Do you think it's a good framework for new or ever-changing business? (think start ups pivoting, or rapidly bring in new product ideas) How much more (or less) time would it take to support? How much would it cost, vs doing it ourselves?
How do you handle new software releases? Is it a continuous deployment system of some sort? Do you have scripts that automatically push the new to the servers? This is a topic I love to talk about! Due to time constraints I'll will simply say that we have tons of information on this process on our engineering blog at Link to :-)
I've seen a number of presentations that mention Etsy's ability to push to production many times a day. How many man hours would you estimate were required to build that process including the code to do the push, dashboard to track, changes to the code base, etc ? It's extremely hard to say. It definitely didn't happen overnight, we continuously deploy the continuous deployment system :) Many of the things we realised we needed were as a result of failures in the system, and having postmortems to learn what went wrong, and fix those to avoid it again.
I've been looking at the Kale stack a bit recently. Thanks for open sourcing! Do you trust Skyline enough that you have people get woken up in the middle of the night by anomalies it detects? If not, do you expect that you will get there, or is the idea more that it should be a system for showing you which graphs to look at? That's actually what we're working on now - we don't currently generate paging alerts from Skyline, but we definitely want to get there.
What are your favorite types of cookies? MIT magic cookies. No, not those types of magic cookies.
Oatmeal and Raisin.
Expiring cookies?
Triple chocolate.
Would you rather fight one Allspaw-sized Gene Kim, or 100 Gene Kim-sized Allspaws? Depends - which one of them will buy me pizza afterwards?
I said "fight", not "date" ;) Damn! This is tough because I'd rather date them than fight them.
Ok fine: I'd rather take one Allspaw-sized Gene. No-one needs to fight 100 Allspaw. I can barely take on 1 (although I try regularly, I've yet to find his weak spot - next time I'll try after he's had a big lunch, it might slow his thought process down just enough).
Dating co-workers is bad, bad! If that were the case, I would never have met my wife!
(full disclosure, brandyvig is my wife ;-) )
From another comment here I assume you are using CentOS. How do you handle yum upgrades across your servers? The answer is "very carefully". We keep software versions pinned to one version for the most part. When we need to upgrade it (new features, bug fixes, etc), we test it one a small number of systems and then let chef upgrade it everywhere.
also, do you use Perconas MySQL fork? If so what do you think of it compared to standard MySQL? We opened source our chef-whitelist library which we use to accomplish this.
I remember reading on Code as Craft a while back that you were leveraging schooner memcache/membrain for cache replication in the Etsy stack. Is this still the case or have you switched to a less "black-box" solution since? Actually, we've never used the Schooner Membrain at Etsy. We only use Memcached and the caching logic is built into our in-house ORM.
I heard you guys were looking at MongoDB for some stuff. I've experimented with MongoDB at a very large site and it was a dismal failure. If you have looked into it what's your opinion? We experimented with MongoDB for a large project a few years ago. We later decided to move the project from there to MySQL. There were a number of reasons for doing this, which related to stability, domain expertise and wanting to keep our infrastructure more homogenous. That doesn't mean we never add new technologies though. We recently started using Redis because it has some very specific strengths which outweigh the cost of adding another technology to the stack.
Are you guys considering different hardware for your servers? Why not implement HP blade systems or moonshot to increase your density? Have you considered open compute like facebook and other large scale web operations? Opencompute is really interesting. I think we're almost getting to the point now where it might make more sense to go that route vs existing big box retailers, but for now we're in a mostly good place. re: blades, a lot of our HP machines are purchased for their high IO density. if we don't need IO density, we buy Supermicro sort-of-blades, 4 machines in a chassis. More info on those here:
Do you have any hardware pr0n? Link to We do. I'm afraid we can't post any pictures. But matt can explain the beauty :)
Actually we do! Check out our blog post.
What kind of tools have you guys developed for internal use? We have multiple tools, a few can be found in our github page. Some prominent tools that come to mind are our provisioning tools which nicely automates our hosts building process (Everything from configuring RAID/storage profiles to configuring the network interfaces and installing the OS and configuring all services). We also an awesome tool to keep track of each day-today activities, which shows all Jira tickets, github commits for each of the member in our Operations team.
How deeply can you analyze information from sellers and customers? Could you figure out trends from random search terms like "cardigan", "coolstorybro", "u jelly", or "impossibrew"? We have a Data team just dedicated for this sort of things. We use Hadoop.
What are some useful tips / tricks / software I should look into to expand my knowledge? Read stackoverflow and serverfault. Look at what questions people ask about those larger scales. See if you can re-produce the problem and the fix at a smaller scale (maybe in a VM on your computer?)
What software and/or techniques do you use for backing up Hadoop data (to protect it from being destroyed because of a human error)? "Human error" is a term we stay away from wherever possible. Frankly, it doesn't exist as a legitimate reason for problems in complex systems. Yes humans make errors, but those aren't themselves the reasons for something breaking.
We have an internal book club where we're currently reading "The Field Guide To Understanding Human Error" by Sidney Dekker. It explains how you should look at the failure of complex systems. There is something Dekker calls the "Old View", which includes things like human error as a reason for a problem. The "New View" takes the time to look into the actual cause of a problem. For example, let's say someone logs into a production server, thinking it's a development server, and wipes the disk.
The problem isn't that the person did it, but that they were able to do it. Why did the system not make it more clear that it was a production machine? What other safe guards should have been in place to prevent this? Did they need some kind of confirmation before doing it? Why did they need to take this particular action in the first place? And so on :-)
I highly recommend the book, and John Allspaw's talks on postmortems (part 1 of his 90 minute talk from Velocity 2011 is available here)
Why is your security team so cool? It's all the animated cat gifs.
Hey Guys, I love the way you operate and the community seems awesome. I'm currently a sysadmin with programming experience and want to get into devops. Would you guys be willing to hire on someone who's quick to learn and really interested in what you're doing? :) We hire people with a wide range of backgrounds, and look for the best fits for each position :-)
I would say that you can't really get in to "devops" as a job. That would be akin to saying you want to get into "teamwork". It's just a thing you do :-) But having both programming and operations skills is a very good combination and one that is quite high demand these days!
Backing up and restoring any DB in a Continuous Delivery environment is extremely challenging, I haven't heard of anyone that has implemented a solid solution. It would be great if you (Avleen) can touch on this topic a little bit also. We are able to backup and restore live Mysql servers because all our Mysql servers are Master-Master pairs. This allows us to take down a server and keep running. More detail here: Link to
Last updated: 2013-08-16 13:16 UTC
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